The BritishPoles.uk had the great honour of speaking to Mr Łukasz Koczocik, who stood up for innocent people during the knife attack at the London Bridge terror attack. During the attack, Łukasz was wounded while defending colleagues and others with a ceremonial spade.
The reason for our interview is the recently awarded brewery prize that Łukasz received on 14 October 2024 from the readers of The Times newspaper as a result of a vote, following a recommendation from the Royal Humane Society. A year ago, Luke was awarded the Queen’s Gallantry Medal, the latest medal approved by Elizabeth II.
Tomasz Modrzejewski, British Poles: First of all, I would like to ask how you feel after the incident, after all, it was not only a huge stress for you but you were physically injured?
Łukasz Koczocik: Yes, today I can say I am fine. But the period of six months to a year after the incident… Well, it wasn’t fun. Now everything is fine, it’s been four years since the incident and fortunately, everything is back to normal.
TM: Do you think it is worth sacrificing yourself and standing up for those around you in such a situation, or should everyone deeply consider it before they act? For some, such a heroic stance can be a moral dilemma.
ŁK: I do not think there is any moral dilemma in such a situation, it is of course each person’s responsibility. I think people should do something to counteract such a situation.
TM: Speaking of current events – have you already claimed the award given to you by the readers of The Times, based on a recommendation from the Royal Humane Society?
ŁK: I’m surprised by that award. I am surprised because I have seen so many people nominated for this award, their life stories… The Royal Humane Society is an organisation that has specialised for about 200 years in finding people who have done something extraordinary by saving the lives of others. When I read the stories of the other nominees for this award… I couldn’t believe that the readers had chosen me because the other stories were truly amazing.
TM: I would like to ask how long have you been living in the UK?
ŁK: I have lived in the UK for 20 years and came here with the first wave of emigration after Poland joined the European Union.
TM: Where did you emigrate from?
ŁK: From Wrocław.
TM: Did this incident affect your daily life in the UK from the perspective of civic experience? It could be said that by standing up for strangers or your work colleagues, you performed the civic duty in its highest imaginable form.
ŁK: I don’t think it fundamentally affected me, I don’t think it did. It might have tickled my ego a little bit [laughs], but maybe I’m mispronouncing myself… I just still feel the surprise of the situation. I’ve often wondered if I’ve done good or bad. Receiving an award like this reassures me that it was a good decision after all, that I didn’t make a mistake.
TM: What was your reality after these events and receiving the awards?
ŁK: Now, fortunately, everything has quietened down around me. I must admit that at the beginning, immediately after the incident, it was very unpleasant. I felt cornered by the media and was unable to engage in conversation with them. Now it’s fine.
TM: I understand that media interest at the time was focused on who stood up to the narwhal tusk and who stood up to the ceremonial pike?
ŁK: Yes, although unfortunately at the same time, the names of the people I was working with were also leaked to the media, it invaded their privacy. After that, I didn’t feel like talking to anyone about it.
TM: So you then had to stand up for your private life and, as I infer from our conversation, your modesty?
ŁK:…Hmm. I didn’t feel like talking to anyone about it at the time. I had to think about it all, and analyse it. I also spent a lot of time on it.
TM: Finally, I would like to ask how the issue of a sense of everyday safety in the UK seems to you after this situation. Do you have a conviction that in such situations changes in procedures are based more on the security services’ immediate response rather than the heroism of the citizens?
ŁK: You know, it is difficult for me to answer that question. I think we don’t realise how many of these kinds of situations don’t happen because of police action, so I don’t know. Do I feel endangered? I think not, it’s the same as when I came here. What is needed here is common sense. After all, we don’t live in a fairy tale world, we live in a world that is based on the current situation that results from what is happening in many parts of the world.
TM: Thank you for the interview. At the same time, I would like to offer my congratulations on behalf of the entire BritishPoles.uk community and my personal compliments, it is difficult to say how a person would behave in such a dangerous situation.
ŁK: Thank you.
TM: As I will be in Wrocław next week, I will send you a photo of the market square.
ŁK: [Laughs] Thank you.
Interviewed by Tomasz Modrzejewski
Photo: X @RoyalFamily